Category: The Real Leaders Project

I’ve wanted to interview Jerry for a very long time. And, after many attempts, we finally found a time that worked. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did.

About Jerry

As a certified professional coach, Colonna draws on his wide variety of experiences to help clients design a more conscious life and make needed changes to their career to improve their performance and satisfaction. He established his coaching practice in 2007. Prior to this work, Colonna was venture capitalist focused on investing in early stage technology-related startups.

In 2002, Colonna became a partner with J.P. Morgan Partners (JPMP), the private-equity arm of J.P. Morgan Chase where he led the firm’s investments in companies such as ProfitLogic Inc. Colonna served as a director at ProfitLogic until its purchase by Oracle Inc.

He joined JPMP from Flatiron Partners. With his partner, Fred Wilson, Colonna launched Flatiron in August 1996. Flatiron became one of the most successful, early stage investment programs. Before Flatiron, Colonna joined his first venture firm, CMG@Ventures L.P. in February 1995 as a founding partner. CMG@Ventures was the first “Internet-specific” venture firm. Prior to joining @Ventures, Colonna worked for ten years for CMP Media Inc.

Colonna also serves as a director, trustee, or advisor to a number of for-profit and non-profit organizations including Naropa University, the only accredited Buddhist-inspired university in North America. He is a recipient of numerous awards and a compelling speaker on topics ranging from leadership to starting businesses, Colonna has been named to Forbes ASAP’s list of the best VCs and Worth’s list of the 25 most generous young Americans. A graduate of Queens College, Colonna lives in Port Washington, New York.

(00.16)
Rohan: I want to take a minute to tell you why we are doing this! I blog a lot about learnings which are essentially ideas. I think the stories of real leaders, put these ideas into context. At the end of the day, this is about understanding the Why, How, and What-to satisfy the curiosity.

So my first question, why are you doing what you are doing now? How did you get here? What’s the back story and maybe, the influences behind your career/life?

Jerry: Two things occur to me as a response. Firstly, looking back through the lens of hindsight, something is very clear to me across all the careers I have had (this is really the fourth career). I have also had a couple of side activities along the way-writing and teaching. The core about all the work I have ever done has been about what I refer to as having the conversation. One of the most important things for me in life is to connect in a real and authentic way with the other human beings. For me, that’s air and water-its absolutely essential. Every single job I have had from being a manager, to being a journalist, to being a VC, and to now being a coach has revolved around having that deep conversation. The way I look at it, the transitions have been more and more of a distillation of that process. That’s my first response.

The other response, is a story of how I decided to become a coach. In 2001 and 2002, I was entering a period of profound existential depression. I had agreed to take a job with JP Morgan. In the spring of 2001, I told Fred, I could not continue in our partnership. It was very painful because we were very close friends and had grown up together. I wasn’t sure what was happening for me. But I did know that I could not make a ten year commitment, in raising fund.

I went ahead and took a job with JP Morgan. I began working for them officially in January 2002. Within a very short period of time, I was seemingly depressed. I would come to the office, lock my door, close the blinds, and hide under my desk. I would cancel my meetings and I would just cry. Eventually I came to understand that I would have to leave that position as well.

In 2003, I went out on my own. Through 2003, 2004 and early 2005 – I was mostly doing internal work that I needed to do on myself. It was during this period that I did some teaching, a lot of writing, and served on a number of boards of directors-I was busy.

It was then I had met a young man who came to network with me for a job. He started to ask me a series of questions and he started to cry one day about how miserable life was. I gave him a book called Let Your Life Speak by a dear friend now, named Parker J Palmer-it is an extraordinary book. And the book had really moved me profoundly. When he left my office, I started thinking about that exchange and I realized that, this was something I wanted to do with my life. I called a friend who was a coach at that time and I said, “I think I want to be a coach”.

We began the process of talking through what that would account. For me, its very hard to separate the decision to become a coach and the path of the other positions I have held as an adult or for my own internal work. Its all been about deep conversations around existentially true issues.

(06.30)
Rohan: Do you think that the depression came about because you lost touch with these conversations for a while?

Jerry: I think the coping mechanisms I had developed in my 20s and 30s to deal with the existential questions broke down. It stopped working. I remember reading a very poignant quote in a book called Listening to Midlife by Mark Gerzon-he’s a fabulous writer. He tells a story of Buzz Aldrin, coming back, after orbiting the earth and suffering a major depression. And the quote that’s attributed to Buzz Aldrin is, “After seeing the earth from the vantage point of the moon, what else is there?” And I felt very thoroughly on hearing that. The coping mechanisms I had developed in my 20s and 30s were things, like the pursuit of money, the pursuit of external affirmations, and external validation. What I realized, in my late 30s, was that they don’t really work. They work for a while, but they don’t really stave off the demons. I had no choice, but to sit still, and listen.

I am a Buddhist. The way I like to tell a story is that when Buddha as a prince, came to realize the realities of birth, suffering, sickness, old age, death-became a wandering mendicant in the forest, became an ascetic holy man, he realized that wasn’t enough. The way I like to think of it is that, one day he just said “Fuck it!”. He had had it-it was enough and he sat down at the boddhi tree, saying to himself, “I am not moving until I figure it out”.

I like to think that, for me, that’s kind of what happened. I just said I am not going to move until I figure this out. I am not going to pretend anymore. And, what emerged was, Jerry the coach.

(09.30)
Rohan: I am trying to understand this. So it seems like the problem was not “what”, it was more of “why” you were doing something. Could you talk me through that? Did the purpose change?

Jerry: I think what happened was that I became more connected with my whole authentic truth. And I became more fiercely dedicated to moving to that fully integreted place. In reality, instead of having a conversation, within service of creating a story as I did as a journalist; or open a company as I did as a manager; or the investments as I did as a VC, I began having conversations that further the alleviations of suffering. And that changes everything.

(11.02)
Rohan: As a coach, I have seen you talk in other interviews about helping entrepreneurs with depression or helping people to ask these “why” questions and stay connected. How big a role does faith or spirituality play in this? In the past ten minutes, I have seen the role Buddhism has played in your life. Do you actively, encourage people to find that faith to help relieve them from their suffering?

Jerry: I don’t believe it matters what religion you believe in. I don’t believe it matters whether or not you consider yourself spiritual. I am not sure what faith means. But I do believe that a kind of radical self enquiry, a radical truth tell is absolutely essential to not only living a better existence, but also being a better leader. Being able to withstand the vicissitudes of everyday life as an entrepreneur. If you give in to the very human tendency, trick yourself, and lie to the world (and to yourself), you actually exasperate the highs and lows on the entrepreneurial world.

(13.21)
Rohan: But does the fact that you believe in something outside yourself, help? I guess that’s my question..

Jerry: Yes, one of the most important ways to break through the ineffaceable narcissicm as an entrepreneur – is a connection to something much larger than yourself. That could be community, that could be family, that could be the society in which you are trying to operate, it could even be a faith.

There is a balance between three things – the inner view, the outer view and the other. If it is only focused on the inner view, you end up falling potentially prey to a kind of self-indulgence-trapped in your mind. If you focus on just the outer view then, you run the risk of living a hollow life-what we call as “hungry ghost” in Buddhism. If you only live for the other, then life is going to be great but you are going to be disconnected from an authentic self. So you really need all three in balance with each other. The awareness of the other keeps you from trapped in your own bull shit.

(15.22)
Rohan: How do you put these great ideas that makes you put these ideas into context? How would you advice people to take practical steps to put this into their lives?

Jerry: Are there things that you can do on a practical everyday basis? Joseph Campbell, Writing in The Power of Myth says, “You must have a room or a certain hour a day when you don’t know whats happening in the newspapers. A place where you simply experience and bring forth what you are and what you might be.” I think that if we spend a little bit of time everyday (very pragmatic piece of advice) cut off from the noise-it could be walking, sitting in meditation, journaling, exercise, or just staring at the sky. Just a little bit of time reconnecting with you without your title, your obligations, your responsibilities, the things that plague you all day long. I think that enables you to build a foundation and then work your tail off. Who are the people coming to the website?

(18.44)
Rohan: I have a whole bunch of people who read the blog. A large group is people who are in my age in their mid 20s.

Jerry: All the people who you talk about can benefit from a little quiet time. One of the great traditions from religion, is that there is a prescribed general time of disconnection. Sabbath – a period of fasting, a period of self reflecting. Many people are so used to these rituals that they don’t use it for the kind of self reflection they were designed for. But what if you can reconnect to these practices?

When I speak to clients I say this, “How about having lunch by yourself and not in front of the screen?” What a radical concept. What if you took a walk around the building? What if you walked home instead of taking the subway? What if you went for a bike ride? And not listen to the iPod? What if you drove your car with the radio off? What if you did not turn the TV on? What if you didn’t check the email? What if you rode the elevator without checking your phone? What would happen?

(20.57)
Rohan: It almost seems like a push for introvercy right? In this world that is obsessed with being an extrovert?

Jerry: I think you make a good point. I am an introvert. Many of these things feel comfortable and natural to me. I am just as drawn to the distractions as anybody else. Maybe there is something that the quiet introvert can teach the rest of us. Maybe there is something beneficial about opening a book and reading poetry.

(21.50)
Rohan: How do you put these principles? What are your habits that make you effective?

Jerry: I am very boring at night because I tend to go to bed around 9 , 9.30. I wake up somewhere between 5 to 6 am. I journal usually with a cup of tea, meditate, check e-mail at that point, or go to the gym. It’s a lovely way to start the day. It takes time. I generally wake up 2 hours before I am supposed to leave. That shocks people. I try not to engage with the screen of any sort after 9, 9.30. I find that its just too loud. That’s a very typical day for me. And then the day proceeds, its very full, sometimes highly emotionally draining. If I had 7, even 10 sessions in a day, that’s a long day. I am working 10 hours. But for me to be fully present for my clients, for my own life, I need this ritual.

(23.40)
Rohan: Is there a message, quote or idea that you would like to share to the eclectic group of readers we have?

Jerry: ‘Don’t take it so seriously’, have fun, breathe, chill out. 90% of the time I spend my time ing people out of their crazy fears. So what would happen if you fail? So what? So whaat? Relax! Its no big deal, Its no big deal. That would be my message, ‘Its no big deal’.

—

Thank you, Jerry, for a very inspiring interview. I’ve started tweaking my daily morning schedule to emulate yours and have begun meditating every day, as well…

Real Leaders Team,

Dhanya, EB and yours truly..

Rohan: I met Jeff Minch of JLM in the commenting section of Fred Wilson’s blog, AVC.com. AVC.com is a great example of the power of blogs in creating communities and I’ve been fortunate to e-meet with some really inspiring people. JLM is one of them. We’ve been fortunate to have JLM over at ALearningaDay from time to time as well and he never fails to amaze us with his wisdom and eloquence.

My half hour with JLM was seeing him at his best – eloquent, wise, funny and full of fascinating stories. I hope you enjoy it.

About Jeffrey Minch

Jeffrey L Minch is an entrepreneur who has founded, managed and led multiple companies — both private and public — in the real estate, construction and entertainment businesses as well as having been an angel investor.

He has been a Managing Partner, President, Chief Executive Officer or Board member for over 30 years. He is finally getting the hang of it all.

He was educated at Virginia Military Institute — a very good place to be from but a devil of a place to be — and graduated with distinction in civil engineering having also met the qualifications for a degree in economics and mathematics. He has an MBA in Finance.

He is a Veteran having served with distinction in the Combat Engineers where he was both a Paratrooper and Ranger.

He has lived in Texas since the early 1980s and is currently involved in CEO coaching, angel investing and multiple start-up businesses.

His passions are family — he has been married for over 33 years including time off for good behavior and has two lovely grown children — business, the beach, the mountains, hiking and driving his beloved 1966 cherry red (slightly in need of a paint job) Impala Super Sport convertible.

He claims to be the “luckiest son of a bitch alive” and there is much evidence to support that assertion.

His Big Red Car is the author of an irreverent blog — The Musings of the Big Red Car in which the car channels its thoughts on business, startups, politics, the military and life.

He can be reached at US 512-656-1383, jminch2011@gmail.com or Skype “jeffminch” and your contact is welcome.

(00.08)

Rohan: JLM, lovely to finally e-meet you. My first question – what’s the story?

JLM: I am 61 years old. I was an army brat growing up. My Dad was in the service and so I went to a military school. I was probably not the most likely kid to go to a military school because I was not particularly well disciplined. Military school for me was a great experience.

Soldiering was the family business, so I have lived on Army posts. It was perfectly comfortable to me. I was forced to do a lot of things – to go to an engineering school, to study – it was exactly the kind of hand that I needed.

I went to the Virginia Military Institute (VMI). It’s created many great leaders like Stonewall Jackson, who was a professor at VMI. Its reputation has been built over 140 years and they knew exactly what they were doing. When you walked through the gates, you were just another guy with shaved head. That learning experience was really the beginning of building us back up. They had absolutely no mercy.

I made an F in calculus, in the first grading period. I had never seen the letter F in my report card in my entire life. It was a terribly humbling experience. I worked with my advisor and he told that if I continue that way, I’d get kicked out.

At the end of the year I was so motivated, I was number one in my class. I had no inkling that I had any kind of a brain. I always felt I had gotten along on baloney and on being quick witted enough. I never got bad grades but I certainly wasn’t a stellar student. But, here, I was scared straight. That first year at VMI was a very telling experience.

I was in the military and I served in a number of different locations. I was a combat engineer. It is very difficult to get in as they pick only the best officers. You had to fight like infantry in an infantry division and you also had to be able to do all the engineering tasks, i.e., build airfields, dams, and bridges.

Combat engineers are used to force river crossing. The infantry comes up to a river and you would force a crossing – go across the river on a little rubber boat under the protection of smoke and then the infantry would come across.

I learnt every single thing I ever needed to learn about business as a platoon leader and company commander.

The first ever rule was that, take care of your men.

If you did that – if you took care of their physical protection, tactics, fighting, food, bullets, and water; even family problems and legal problems – everything would turn out okay.

We used to have people from all backgrounds. Once, we needed somebody to fix the tile in the latrine. Some guy raises his hand and says, “I was the largest tile contractor in Miami before I got drafted”. That’s the kind of people you have in the force. My company clerk was a PhD in English from St Joseph’s University and he handled all my correspondence.

My first job was with Mobil Corporation. It was a wonderful experience. I was going from Toronto to New York and I lost my luggage, flying Air Canada.

I showed up for my interview in blue jeans and a pink shirt that had been cleaned at the hotel overnight. And I said to the chairman: “A day will come when you will need to get things done with no excuses. So, here I am – lost luggage and all.”

He stuck his head out of his office and said the job was filled. It was a great learning experience as it was just like in military – your mission is in the forefront. You have to get the job done.

It was the greatest experience of my life because this company had no problem with money. With most businesses, the problem is that they don’t have enough capital. I learned a lot working with them.

I worked for a guy in Austin, Texas. His name was Jack Crosby.

He is the finest entrepreneur I have ever met in my life; the absolute best deal guy. I saw this guy turn water into wine and lead into gold.

I worked for him for a number of years in the real estate business and built some buildings. When I see a building, I don’t see it; I see the substructure, the foundation, the mechanical & electrical functions, and the fire protection systems.

When I walk into a room, the first thing I do is look at the ceiling. If you have a nice ceiling, you know that building is very well built.

I sold all of that in the mid 90s. I retired when I was 45. That was the first big personal mistake I made. I went from being intellectually engaged, to really just working on my tan.

And working on your tan does not require a very high IQ. So, I went back to work (it was a struggle to get my brain working again!).

I have run public companies and private companies. I consider myself a bit of a leader. I don’t say that because I think that I have any particular great talent. If you look at the life experiences I have had, it has been forced upon me.

Within everyone, there is a talent for leadership. It’s just a question of whether it has been developed. I firmly believe there are no extraordinary men. We simply have ordinary men thrust into extraordinary circumstances; the friction of those circumstances for a person reveals their character, and that character carries one to where they need to be.

President Eisenhower is a perfect example – a farm kid from Kansas to running the whole damn world, just because he rose to the occasion in every difficult situation.

As for the rest of my story, I stopped running the public company I was running, 4-5 months ago. I am back in start-up and entrepreneurial business. I am working on a couple of deals, now. Last week, I was actually advising a couple of folks I had met on Fred Wilson’s AVC.com

(10.05)

Rohan: It sounds like a bunch of big moments. What are some of these big moments you had, that in hindsight, made all the difference in the world..

JLM: In the context of today, how can we overcome a bad economy? During the oil crisis in the mid 80s the economy in Texas was really just horrible. I always say that tough times don’t continue, but tough people prevail. The lessons I learnt during that time were monumental. It was like I was back in combat. Every facet of running a business was challenged. While I know the company prevailed and made good profits, I know how we made the payrolls every two weeks.

While I am proud that I lived through it, any person should do it. Keep putting one foot ahead at a time. As long as you decide to never quit, nobody can ever defeat you. No circumstances can ever overcome you. You just have to keep showing up every single morning.

As humans, we need and like challenges. I honestly did not know if I’d make it in military school. The willingness to test ourselves in difficult circumstances is the driver, and recognition of that reveals the entrepreneurial sense in a person.

I think it’s cyclical – sometimes, the force is powerful and sometimes, you need a little bit of rest. It’s all a matter of negotiating with yourself. In some places I am the best coach, in some others I am my own largest critic.

And, on some days when I feel the fatigue, I recharge my battery and come back to work the next day and wonder “Why did I feel like that? I’m ready to bite the ass off a bear.” As long as you have that spirit within you, you can prevail.

When I was in my mid 40s, I contracted hepatitis. It is a very dangerous disease and a lot of people die from it. It forced me to re-evaluate things.

I think survival mentality is a very powerful driver of how you see the prospect of life.

For most of my business career I was a guy in a blue suit, cufflinks and Hermes ties. And here you see me today in front of this camera with a privilege to come to work in blue jeans or khakis.

Funny thing is, I wake up earlier, I work harder and I work more than before. I am also more comfortable.

If I want to wear a blue suit, I’d do it. But now it’s my choice as opposed to it being forced upon me. The ability to control your time is extremely powerful.

I think the ability to work in a comfortable atmosphere and with good men and women is important.

As an entrepreneur, you’d rather be first in command on a small rowboat than be the second in command on the Queen Elizabeth II. You’ve got the whip in your hand. You can drive yourself, you can drive the community and that’s the greatest blessing you can have.

It’s also one of the real secrets of the American economy, the real driver is a small business man who has the power to fashion his own strategy, execute it and reap the benefits of it.

(15.35)

Rohan: What role has mentorship played in your life? What do you think about the Mentor and Mentee relationship?

JLM: I don’t think there’s been a minute in my life where I’ve not had a mentor. Nobody in my family had gone to college. And my mother never ever tolerated the notion that her children were not going to go to college.

My mother and father are the smartest people I have met in my life. The way they managed us, and our expectations, was beyond belief.

VMI has the most powerful leadership programme than you can imagine. There is one man in particular, who was the Commandant of Cadets – Colonel Buchanan.

He was a highly decorated army officer in the Korean War. He was an example for the kind of guys that VMI puts in contact with its cadets.

As a cadet I was a very good student, I was steered into it. In my first year I was the number on in my class, but I absolutely did know that could be the case.

I was the most surprised person when I saw all the A’s I got. This was because I was not striving to be number one; I was just trying to do my best.

When we went to army summer camp, I was a serious student but I was just a tolerable military cadet.

I did not think VMI was army. I did not shine my shoes, or have the closest haircut – I just got by.

So this Commandant of Cadets called me in one day. I walked in and I saluted him.

He said, “ I just want to tell you just one thing. Don’t embarrass VMI at the summer camp this summer.” And I was so thoroughly pissed off and every thing I did that summer was with a resonation of his voice in my head.

About 10000 cadets were graded at the same time in summer. And there I was number 1.

The Commodore walked up behind my back and whispered in my ear – “Minch I knew you could do it”. He knew exactly what he had to tell me to motivate me.

The result from my side was genuine, real, sincere and as passionate as it can be. I was going to show him that he was wrong. And the entire time he was just playing me like a big fat trout, he knew exactly what he was doing.

Later on when I became a professional soldier, I would see him from time to time, we got to have a peer-to-peer relationship. It was one of the finest things in the world. He would say something like, “Minch, I knew what you did in summer camp, get those fires going”.

I had a partnership for 13 years. It was two guys doing business and shaking hands over a napkin. We made hundreds of millions of dollars of profit.

In that 13-year period we had one disagreement. We had a cup of coffee, next morning, and asked, “So what did you think?”. At the very same instant we both pointed out – “You were right”. When you think of that, you can’t imagine how perfect that fit was; it was totally serendipitous.

When we started that partnership, my partner was the financier. He knew his way around the capital markets and it was a perfect partnership. At the peak of it, we had 500 employees. We built a lot of projects together and in the whole time we did not have one cross word.

I look back now and that person is still a mentor to me. That relationship has been extremely valuable and extremely sacred. It’s been extremely productive, both ways.

I see him every 6 months or so to have a chat. He can make a critical assessment of anything I did and I can return that favour.

I invest a lot in that relationship. He was at an advantage when we started – he was the older guy by a few years. The relationship grew with us. When my son was born, he was the first guy to hold him.

So if you want to have a mentor relationship you have to seek out the right people. I am not buying anything about how it is a difficult process. Put yourself out there; get the best help you possibly can. Be humble. Be aggressive and ask for help from the people who can really help you. Be a mentor in return.

The other thing is being able to do it with humility. I was impressed with what I learnt about Mitt Romney’s personal generosity. I wish that he had become president, but he hasn’t. But, a guy like that who has left real footsteps with his character and wealth – that makes me feel real good about America.

That is the American dream.

It is one of the amazing things in this world. The more that you give, the more you get – to be able to have a mentor-mentee relationship. Our relationship is just like that – to be able to learn so many things from each other.

It is something that’s very unique about the community that surrounds Fred Wilson at AVC.com. I think it starts with him and people like that are attracted to other people like that.

(26.03)

Rohan: What are a couple of your favourite hacks that make your day more productive?

JLM: When I was first in business we used green and white accounting paper for accounting. I used to think that the HP 12C calculator was really something!

In my lifetime I bought the first Apple II that was ever bought in Texas. And I used it to do interest rate calculations for high-rise office buildings. I could change interest rate assumptions in 45 seconds and the result would be on that screen.

Can you imagine saying to somebody today? – that your screen will change in 45 seconds? (haha)

I am a bit of a gadget guy. I like everything about technology. I have a laptop, a smart phone, a tablet and a PC. I like productivity software – I am an Evernote slave!

There’s so much data which can give so much more information. Skype is amazing.

I think you should have your skills sharp and invest time in it. Everyone should have some quiet time as well. You have to go skiing, or spend an hour swimming, or do something else to refresh your brain. It’s unbelievable how productive you can become if you master that.

One of my theories around business is what I call a 360 degree business man.

You have to know everything about the business model that you are operating with, regulatory environment, leadership, management, legislation lobbying and on top all that you have to be able to master the technology. You have to be able to communicate. The reason being – you should understand all these little sensitivities until you have them on your fingertips.

I learnt how to fly an airplane when I was 50 years old. I don’t want to learn how to do it – I want to master it. I spent 250 hours and I took my test. The designated examiner who tested me said, “Are you sure you are here for this test?”. I think one of the things in my 360 degree businessman theory is mastery as opposed to familiarity.

If you do that, I think you will be in a position to prevail today.

(29.59)

Rohan: If there’s one idea that you’d like to share what would that be?

JLM: One of the great tragedies going on in the world right now is all of the war and horror. It’s going on in the Middle East, in the competition between us and China, us and Russia and all the millions being spent on weapons.

I have been a soldier; there is nothing obscene and degrading as competing in these kinds of things.

You take the macro layer of the problem and come to the micro level. And it gets down to something very simple. All of us get back what we invest.

The niceness, the courtesies, the humility that you personify and exhibit in personal relationships, comes back a thousand fold. The genuineness, the sincerity, and the authenticity that one brings to every relationship affect the value of that relationship.

Punctuality is the courtesy of kings because there’s nothing else they can really give. It seems to me as though we should be more humble and god-fearing about everything.

You may not think of that as being a business theory but really it is. It’s helpful whether you are dealing with failure or triumph – failure is tuition – doing the right thing and in the right way is the greatest contribution you can make to comity in general, to the sweetness of life.

It’s like the American Constitution. You are entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Nobody said you’re going to be guaranteed happiness but they did say that you can take a crack at getting it in your life. And that’s the humble approach to be taken for everything we do.

—

Thank you, JLM for that absolutely inspiring interview!

Real Leaders Team,

Dhanya, EB and yours truly..

Mr EMC Palaniappan or “Pal Uncle” as I know him has been a close family friend. My mom has been a big fan of his aesthetic taste as the families have gone on multiple holidays to his resort and service apartment properties.

As an entrepreneur, Pal Uncle made his bones in Financial Services and has since then expanded into hospitality amongst other industries. I met him at his lovely offices in Chennai while I was home this winter. I hope you enjoy the chat as much as I did.

About Pal

Palaniappan (or Pal) has completed 17 years in the Stock Broking and Financial Services business. He is the Founder Chairman and Managing Director of Chona Financial Services Limited (CHONA), a Member of the National Stock Exchange (NSE), Bombay Stock Exchange (BSE) and MCX-SX, a Depository Participant and Portfolio Manager.

A bachelor in Commerce, he completed his MBA at PSG Tech, Coimbatore and then went on to the USA to do his M.A. in Journalism at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and then his Masters in City and Regional Planning (MCRP) at the University of Memphis. He worked as a City Planner for two years for the State of Florida before he returned to India and entered Stock broking and Commodity broking.

He writes regularly on market related issues and is a guest on several television shows related to the markets.

Palaniappan was the All India President of the Association of National Exchanges Members of India (ANMI) in the year 2009-10 and was the Chairman of the ANMI Southern India Regional Council – Tamilnadu, Kerala, Karnataka Chapter for four years. He was a Member of the Secondary Market Advisory Committee of SEBI in the year 2009-10.

While always involved in the Real Estate business, his recent business pursuits include Development and Operation of Resorts (The Fern Creek in Kodaikanal, and Old Kent Estates in Coorg), Sales and Charter of Luxury Motor Yachts and the launch of an e-Commerce portal for products and services in the Construction and Interior Decoration space under the name “Build Mantra”.

(00.30)

Rohan: The purpose of this initiative is to meet people and find out their stories. It would be great to find out what you do, why you do it, and what makes it work for you. So let’s start with your background story..

Pal: Where do we start (haha). I did my B.Com at Vivekananda, Chennai. I went on to complete my MBA at PSG, Coimbatore and went to the United States to study for a couple of years. 2 years became 5 years. I did a Masters in Journalism and then one in City and Regional Planning. I worked for a couple of years as a Planner. I got back to India after that. It seemed like I had a clear plan as to what to do when I was abroad, but when I got back, I did not know where to begin. There was a family business to go to, but I was not too inclined to be a part of that.

After a few hits and misses, my wife started a stock broking business. It started growing at a pace where she could no longer do it alone. So, I stepped in. Together, we brewed that business. That was the start of our story. We embraced technology and that was a major factor in our success. We developed multiple other businesses branching out from that. We continue to develop these initiatives and turn them into well-oiled machines.

(02.20)

Rohan: I have two questions. What businesses do you run? I’ve realized that there is always a back-story as to how you learnt what you learnt in entrepreneurship; what would you say is yours?

Pal: I can’t pin point to one experience or lesson and say “that is where it all came from.” Every course I took, every task at work and every experience has given me lessons. They continue to do so, even today. And I hope they will continue forever.

I guess you could say that the spirit of entrepreneurship comes from my family. I started a video games business way back in 1982. It did not go well. My father said, “It is your first business. It’s would have been great if it went well. It’s totally alright if it didn’t. Let’s move on now”. That was his attitude and it rubbed off on me as well. You have to keep trying and keep going. At one point in the US, I was doing three four jobs at the same time. All that helped. Little spark-offs came together and connected.

(04.35)

Rohan: You started off as an entrepreneur and then grew. What have been some of the defining moments in this time?

Pal: Sometimes, success comes without you realizing it. You are often constantly plugging away and working on something, and just when you wonder why you weren’t successful, it seems to come and pour down on you. You really don’t understand what you did differently. It is just that everything accumulates with time. You need to keep going on the right path and it will come.

(05.17)

Rohan: Do you think that is a product of luck or skill?

Pal: Skill is what keeps you going. Luck is what comes to you to keep you on the path. If you are not on the path, luck will never hit you. To me a lot of things depend on integrity. I value integrity and trust above all else. If you don’t let your employees and your company down, everything else will automatically follow.

(05.52)

Rohan: You run so many different businesses! What are your key strengths across the spectrum? And, what is your approach to managing these businesses?

Pal: I think one of my negative attributes is that I start looking at new opportunities every time I have free time! And that spreads you very thin. That was very difficult for me to control. The plus point of being an entrepreneur is probably a negative for me. So, the one thing that I need to focus on is to restrict myself to core areas and not spread out too much.

These have all been totally different businesses. I depend upon a lot of people in my work. I look at the person more than a role.

(07.29)

Rohan: Do match a role to a person or a person to a role?

Pal: I think it works both ways. You are continuously trying to match these two things. Sometimes, you need to take a portion out of one role and give it to another person and vice-versa. It is not a process with an ending. It continues dynamically.

(08.07)

Rohan: There are two schools of thought here, right? You decide on what you are going to do and then hire the fit for that role. The other way is to take a bunch of great people and build something around them. What do you prefer?

Pal: I think its somewhere in the middle. Often times, you could have picked the best person in the world and he may not be what you are looking for. For example, my dad is a great operations guy. He is the kind of person who will “do everything” and even work 24 hours! But, he is not a tech-savvy guy. What can you do about things like that? I just have to pull tech related responsibilities out and give it to someone else.

(09.00)

Rohan: What have your biggest learnings been?

Pal: Entrepreneurship involves great risk. You have to take risks which have to be calculated. One thing I always do is take risks in measured steps. You should know how much you could lose to take the risk. “Is this something I can afford to lose?” should be the measure by which you take the step.

Don’t take too big a step. This is the key for our portfolio management as well.

Diversification is the key. If you do that, when the entire business or industry goes down, you don’t feel the pressure. So, the principle is extensive and constant diversification in different areas. That means each step in itself will not hurt you. I apply the exact same principle in business as well.

(10.52)

Rohan:

Are there any principles/hacks by which you run your daily life?

Pal: I wish I could say it was that simple. I have a to-do list that seems to always grow and never come down (haha).

I believe management-by-crisis is not the best way to manage things. However, you end up managing a lot of crisis on a day-to-day basis. One way I have managed to keep a portion of the management at production (versus crisis) is through delegation. When you find the right people you trust, you get to focus on the core areas of the businesses.

(12.08)

Rohan: Both you and your wife are working parents. I know you have three kids. So when there is trouble, how do you guys manage?

Pal: It is one of the biggest challenges we faced. Our kids always say that business has taken a prominent place in our lives. We try our best to be around for them. We make sure one of us is always available. Our office and home are next door. We planned it that way so we get to maximize our resources (even if it costs us a lot more, financially!). We also plan getaways from work to be with them and get the family time.

(13.41)

Rohan: Has there been a big evolution with your world so far with respect to your role as a leader? Have you seen your principles change over time or have you just altered minor bits?

Pal: I would love to say that I knew what I was doing all along. But no, it is a dynamic thing. It continues to change till this day. I think learning never stops. There are a lot of things I never do, and there are things I have picked up over time.

(14.23)

Rohan: So where does your learning come from? Is it books, people or how?

Pal: I work with my wife and she is a huge source of my learning. I talk to a lot of people, watch a lot of television, and read a lot of books. There are multiple sources of information in that case. I would attribute value to a lot of things I have discussed with people. When you discuss, you often stumble on insights that seem to come out of the blue.

(15.30)

Rohan: What are some of the things you have learnt that you would like to share?

Pal: Hard work – there is no substitute for that. Take risks and innovate. Don’t bother about failure.

My dad used to say that there was a very thin line between a fool and a genius, “Don’t be afraid to be called a fool, otherwise you’ll never get a chance to become a genius.”

Success is not your decision. It is a product. You have to choose your methods, policies and business. The rest will follow.

—

I also casually asked him off-the-record as to the role routines played in his life. And, I learnt that he played 90 minutes of tennis every morning to keep himself fit. For someone struggling to get to 30 minutes of exercise in every day, that was really inspiring!

Thank you, Pal Uncle for that inspiring interview!

The Real Leaders Team,

Dhanya, EB and yours truly..

Dhanya: Brad Blackstone was my professor (He laughs when you address him as Professor, btw) for a Professional English Communication module at National University of Singapore. The second I met him, he stood out from the professors I was used to – even with the way he introduced himself. I found being in class an incredible experience. Brad just loves what he does and it shows in the way he handles things. Rohan and EB have also taken the exact same module in their university days and loved it!.

So, he’s been on our “to-interview” list for a while to understand. And I met with Brad at his office to understand what makes him tick. Read on!

About Brad

Brad Blackstone is Lecturer, Centre for English Language Communication (CELC), National University of Singapore, and Chief Editor of ELTWorldOnline.com. Currently, Brad teaches communication skills courses for science and engineering students and for business students. Prior to coming to Singapore, he developed and implemented communication skills training programs for General Motors, Linksys and the Japanese Ministry of Education. He has taught English for Academic Purposes, composition and communication skills in universities in Japan, Malaysia, Portugal and the United States. Brad received CELC’s Commendation for Teaching Excellence for Academic Year 2007/2008, 2009/10 and 2011-12, and the NUS Annual Teaching Excellence Award for 2009-10. Brad’s publications include academic articles, several volumes of poetry and two dozen songs.

(00:16)
Dhanya: What’s your story, Brad? Right from where you grew up to how you ended up in Singapore..

Brad: I was born in a small town in Ohio and majored in Russian literature. I was in a Russian graduate program. After studying in Moscow I really questioned whether that was what I wanted to do. Of course I wanted to be on the same path as everyone else – I finished undergrad and opted for a graduate course. But when I took a small break and went on a tour around Europe I realized that there was so much more to the world than Russian literature. I was fascinated, interested and realized that I could do so much more than that.

The reason I had taken Russian literature was because I was interested in European history and civilization. I realized I needn’t focus on Russian literature to embrace European civilization. I spoke to my course advisor and told him about my reservations. He told me that since I was trained in Russian literature and a couple of other languages like French and German, I could teach English. He told me how that would help increase my personal reach and growth. He told me how I understand language and people and why there was no reason I shouldn’t teach English.

That meeting got me thinking really. He told me that I could go places too. He asked me to pick a place and I remember saying Singapore. This was in 1979 when I was in grad school. I ended up quitting grad school, I moved to Europe. I lived in Portugal for 3 years; I ended up teaching English and Business Communication with General Motors. That experience expanded my horizon really. I realized how there was a world of communications waiting to be explored with respect to personal interactions and cultural interactions. That was a defining moment for a typical American college kid from a small town.

I learnt Portuguese when I lived there. I used to read the newspaper in English and Portuguese, watch the local television and I also had a Portuguese girlfriend who spoke no English. So I took every opportunity to learn new cultures and meet interesting people. It was also the time when I was questioning the United States and a lot of assumptions I had as an American. In America, you are brainwashed to think it is the best country in the world.

I realized Portugal was a country that has a thousand years of statehood and it had become a nation a thousand years earlier. They had incredible history, culture, tradition, food and beaches. America was not the only place to be.

(06:20)
Dhanya: Can you tell us the story about the General Motors pitch?

Brad: It was at a party once, in Portugal. By that time I had a job teaching engineers, English. I had about 2 or 3 engineers. They would come to my house for an hour once or twice a week for English conversation. As I talked to these guys I found out that about 20 odd engineers were being sent out to various places across the city for English – the purpose being to enhance their English language skills. I found this system extremely ineffective because these guys are driving 20-40 minutes from their office to different places. And all the time is taken from their work time.

Somebody told me that the Managing Director of GM was around at that same party. The idea to take English for all these engineers at one place had struck me earlier. So I decided to pitch that idea to him. I walked up to him and introduced myself as one of the English tutors of GM. He didn’t seem to be interested but then I said, “The program you have set up is very inefficient.” His interest perked up and he asked “Why?” I explained the situation and how I could come to the head quarters. He said “Come up to my office on Monday morning”.

I planned two different levels of English courses for Beginners and Advanced. That ended up being my job for two years. I remember learning so much about business from a huge multi national corporation like GM. They were all men except one or two women maybe. Later when I went back to graduate school I focused on business communication.

(12.12)
Dhanya: Would you say teaching was your passion?

Brad: It was just the people and the university lifestyle. I liked being in a learning environment. And suddenly being the teacher and not the student was cool. I was always interested in the human element of interactions rather than the evolution of language.

(15.00)
Dhanya: Your recent interest has been interaction on social media right?

Brad: Even something like blogging for example. I am interested in watching their interaction on the blogs. I find it really cool to see what they have to say and how they respond to each other. Similar interests on Facebook, I would say. I find it a great way for people to develop that feedback.

(16.00)
Dhanya: EB, Rohan and myself think of you as one of our favourite NUS professors. We love your charisma as a teacher! Have you ever felt a difference in approach in comparison to your peers?

Brad: I have visited a lot of lessons and I feel sometimes people are just born to teach. If you boil it down to what makes them tick, I think it is about whether or not you care about other human beings – authentic care about others. For me its not a magic formula, I am truly interested in finding out about what you need and what you have to say. I get to be part of your experience; I get paid for it and so much the better.

Nurses are the same. I have a sister who loves her job; she loves to find out who they are and what their hopes and dreams are. When I walk into a class if I believe in the course objectives, it is very satisfying.

(18.12)
Dhanya: Can you tell us about Radio Moka?

Brad: I was in a band called the ‘Blackstone’s blues’ for a long time – I played the harmonica, percussions and did some backup singing. I mainly organized our gigs and that took a lot of time. In Japan I organized a music festival – getting the bands, getting sponsors, figuring out the schedule and just putting together everything was a hell lot of work, as much as I enjoyed it. I let that role go by after that phase. To perform on stage takes a tremendous amount of energy. You need to be pumped up. I couldn’t afford to do that with my job here in NUS. I still love music; it is my place to unwind.

As for Radio Moka, I met a guy who lived in my condominium complex. He was an exchange student here. We met at the pool, became friends and got to chatting. When he came home one day, he saw all my CDs and he was impressed with my huge collection. I have got about 2000 CDs and he said he had about 2000 on his Mac. We shared music. Finally he told me that it was his dream to start a radio station and I agreed. I guessed I would love to keep my foot in music that way. This was about two years ago. He went back to Paris and figured out setting it up. He asked me to write a blog post every time I broadcasted and I have been doing it ever since. I go live once in two weeks for about an hour.

Media has a focus on pop music and there is so much disproportional popularity for pop music. I realized this and that’s when I got into regional music. That was a great way for me to get in touch with my musical and anthropological side at the same time. Music is such a happy place – whether it is sad or happy music. That’s the story of Radio Moka.

(25.09)
Dhanya: What is an idea you would like to share with the readers of this blog about what you have learnt in your life?

Brad: It is interesting that you ask that question, I just got a Facebook inbox from my 26 year old daughter. She has very strict opinions and she does not wish to change them. At my age I feel I do not have such hard thoughts. Today I think Barack Obama is a positive force in America, but tomorrow I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that it was completely fake. And I would be willing to accept that. I was more resilient with my opinions as a younger man but at this point I am not so fixed.

At this point I feel it never hurts to embrace the unknown. Even if it seems intimidating, it might not be so once you get used to it. I sign up for projects that everybody else is hesitant to sign up for. I signed up for teacher training in Thailand recently – it comes back to the fact that I am going to work with interesting people; and possible friends. I am not intimidated about jumping into things.

Embrace challenges and jump into the unknown.

—

Thank you Brad, for a very sweet interview.

Real leaders Team,
Dhanya, EB and yours truly..

Today’s interview is someone I’ve had the pleasure to get to know personally thanks to RealAcad, a crazy and inspiring entrepreneurial boot-camp I’ve attended many a time. Stephan is fun, inspiring and all in all great guy!

Today’s interview is that of a friend and person who’s gone from being a corporate person to then being a consultant and author, and then back to corporates before setting out to be an entrepreneur. His story as an entrepreneur is one of characteristic tenacity – he started up with an idea and, when that didn’t become the success he thought it would be, began working on a new idea which has been doing really well over the past year.

One year ago, William had reached out to test a product he was developing – Engagio. I had gotten to know William through Fred’s wonderful blog – AVC.com. His first minimum viable product launched on AVC a few weeks later and William hasn’t looked back. It’s a really cool story. Thanks William, for taking the time!

About William Mougayar

William launched his second start-up Engagio in 2012, having started Eqentia in 2008. He has more than 30 years of strategic, operational, and leadership experience in the technology industry, as an entrepreneur, business executive, professional speaker, management consultant and best-selling author. His career spanned 14 years at Hewlett-Packard in a mix of senior sales and marketing management roles, 10 years as an independent thought leader, and 2.5 years as global VP of Corporate Marketing at Cognizant Technology Solutions.

He was also the best-selling author of Opening Digital Market (McGraw-Hill, 1997), co-author of The Business Internet and Intranets (Harvard Business School Press, 1997) and was a columnist for Computerworld, LANTimes and Business 2.0. William is a graduate of the University of Washington (BSc), the University of Western Ontario (Marketing Management), and attended the University of British Columbia’s Graduate Commerce School.

Rohan: It would be great to start with your story, William..

William: Thanks for having me again on the program, Rohan.

I was born in Lebanon and my family moved to Canada when I was 17. We moved here in 1976 exactly because of the war and we landed in Montreal since we spoke French. I was not speaking English so well back in those days; it was more of a third language.

I went to the University of Washington, Seattle. Vancouver in British Columbia became our home in Canada. After university I started my first job in 1982 with Hewlett Packard (HP) when I was 23. My first job was in Sales in the medical division. HP was the leader in that sector those times. I stayed with HP for a good 14 years! As you can see I spent most of my formative years in HP. HP was the most admired company and held a great place in the Fortune rankings year after year. It was a 2.5 billion dollar company in the year I joined and when I left in 1994 it was 32-34 billion dollar company in terms of sales.

I think I have learnt a lot from HP. I have been in different roles there. I had also worked in the computer division. I was a salesman, a marketing manager, national sales manager and even in-charge of reengineering at one point. In 1995 when I realized the internet was going to be big, I jumped and become part the HP internal initiatives. It was called the information highway then.

Later I decided to leave HP and become a consultant. I wanted to write books on internet commerce and internet business. I did write some books and started speaking on these topics. This happened for ten years until 2005. I decided to go back to the corporate world and I joined Aberdeen, the research company. I went on to work with Cognizant Technology Solutions of Chennai. I was the head of global marketing out of New Jersey. It was a very global company and it did not matter where you lived. We would get on a plane and have conference calls. I used to work in the evenings because of India time on a routine basis.

In 2008, I decided to jump ship again and become an entrepreneur one more time. I founded my first start-up at that time (Eqentia) and a year ago I founded Engagio. To sum it all up, I went from a big company to a small company back to a big company and back to a small company. This is kind of the fourth stage of my career!

Rohan: If you could tell us more about the logo and the background, it would be great..

William: That logo you see there has just been changed. We are launching next week. We have twisted the e and it looks like an @ sign now. It symbolizes engagement as the new e-mail and communication segment out there.

Rohan: So what’s the story of Engagio? What is your vision?

William: Engagio is based in Toronto. I am at the intersection of Yonge and King Streets now. It’s where the financial district is located and somehow it has also become the place for start-ups to be located. Between where I am and ten blocks going to the west of King Street, there’s probably about a hundred start-ups.

You and I being prolific commentators on Fred Wilson’s blog, we know what it is to comment. I was commenting here and there in a lot of places including blogs. And I was finding it difficult to keep track of all of these discussions. It dawned on me to put all these discussion in one place – aggregate them like e-mail.

I called Fred Wilson and said ‘what do you think of this idea?’. This was almost one year ago in October 2011. Fred really liked the idea and said ‘make it look like Gmail’. And we did that in 9 weeks! And we launched on AVC.com. Our story is known with the AVCers as well.

As for the progress of Engagio, there are three phases of development. Phase one is when you start by managing your own conversations at the inbox level. We evolved it into following your friends’ conversations through the dashboard – that was stage two. These are dipping points on engagements in all of your networks not just Disqus and blogs. What we are launching next week is a place where you can see anybody’s discussions and anybody’s conversation.

By the time this interview is out, we will be a search and discovery destination for the online social conversations out there. When you go to the homepage you will be able to see the discussions that are going on and you’ll be able to dip in even if you weren’t involved in these discussion.

Rohan: What do you mean by discussions here?

William: I refer to the comments on blogs and also the conversations on social networks. You tweeting or re-tweeting is not a discussion. The minute someone else responds to you it becomes a discussion. Especially when there is more than one person. The more the number of people in these discussions the more prominence these discussions get on our platform.

He goes back to describing Engagio…

Along with this discovery we have a Search component. This has been the vision of Engagio since day one from January 2012. It took a little bit of time to have a mass of conversation before we could launch this aspect. When you search through conversations, you’ll find valuable information. You’ll be able to create alerts on the conversation about the topics that matter to you.

This is the first time we bring such a feature to the mass market. Of course there are expensive business solutions that do this. This is the first time we have a consumer-based solution that lets you generate your own alerts. We are working with 14 different APIs right now from social networks to social communities to blogs to vertical networks. We are indexing millions of conversations.

Rohan: So essentially if I look for a conversation about Manchester United game on Saturday, I’ll be able to see all the discussion around that game on Engagio, right? Is that the potential you see?

William: Well, I wouldn’t say all the conversations because we are slowly building our customer/user base. We have started with a majority of American users, so the probability of finding discussion about a football game might less. We have about 5 million user profiles now and it is growing fast!

What we are doing is going under the surface. If you subscribe to Google Alerts and such you don’t get the information under the headline. We are doing that – going beneath and seeing what is being said. A 500-word blog post could generate 300 more comments with thousands more words. So we are looking below the iceberg here.

Rohan: There is a lot of talk about social here. People are speculating if it’s a bubble or not a bubble. What is your view on it?

William: When we say Social I like to say Social Web. It is not just social media but a web. The web is becoming social. Everything we do online is becoming social. We are becoming more engaged. The trend I see is that the online world is influencing the physical world. We are becoming more and more Advocates. Online advocacy is becoming more real, powerful and effective in bringing change. For an example we can look at what happened with the SOPA and PIPA bills. Few months ago, these privacy bills were going to be pass in the US Congress. Suddenly the blogosphere, comment sphere and social sphere started to discuss those issues and in the end we saw the online world defeating the traditional lobbyists from the legislative policy making world. The raise-up from the online world saw passionate commenting changing those laws.

That is equivalent to other parts of the world where governments are being toppled because revolutions have started online in the social media. It’s not just about changing policy it’s also about changing the minds of people for the good of mankind.

I think we are barely starting to scratch the possibilities of what online advocacy can do and how it can influence the physical world. We also think Engagio can play a role in helping the people that want to be advocates connect with each other. As an example, recently because of what happened with the Hurricane Sandy in New York, Albert Wenger realized we should come up with ways to protect the New York to prevent damages and the first thing he did was suggest an online Kickstarter initiative There would be discussions about the issue and that would become important foundations for the real world change.

Rohan: What were some defining moments that come to mind when you think of yourself as a leader?

William: I don’t think I have had one defining moment that changed everything. I have had small moments that I keep remembering. I had the opportunity to spend two days with Alvin Toffler (Author of Future Shock & The Third Wave) back in 2000. We were speaking at the same conference in Santiago, Chile. I spent a lot of time with him. We ended up flying back together to Los Angeles. He is the dean of the information age and of what’s happening right now in the world of web.

I have role-models who have been guiding me. They don’t know that they are my mentors, but I follow them and learn from them. Alvin Toffler is one such person. Of late, Fred Wilson has become a great mentor. Not just as an investment guru but also as a professional advisor and as a friend. I benefit from my relationship with Fred and that has helped me a lot.

Rohan: Is there a productivity hack that you would like to share?

William: There are a couple of things I do. I used to have to-do lists but I don’t use them anymore. What I do instead is e-mailing myself the task that needs to be accomplished. I use headers to guide me when I am looking for these e-mails. For example, I would use ‘to-do’ as the subject line and when I search for that phrase, I get the list of things I need to complete.

I have another one where the subject line is ‘listen’ for podcasts or audiobooks or just music. I spend a lot of time travelling, so during those times I use these e-mails to listen to things in my car. Similarly I have ideas for my products and I use the ‘product’ subject line. Other examples are ‘marketing’ and ‘pitch’. I essentially have four or five categories of things to e-mail myself with. Haha.

Rohan: What is an idea that you would like to pass to our small and growing group of audience?

William: To never give up. I am bold, tenacious and I try things. That is what I want to give to others. When things don’t work out don’t take it personally. Take what you learn from it. Don’t let it affect you. My baseline thinking is this and I have been believing in it for 25 years now – I never let problems get to me.

I need to be in a full position of control to deal with these problems. I park them and I go and deal with them when I am in a better state of mind. Obviously there are some things you have to deal with right away. But the astonishing thing is that you don’t have to deal with them immediately. Some of them go away and if the others stay you just need time to think about them. If you spend a couple of days thinking about it you can come up with a way to solve it; you can be in a better position to be effective with them.

Thank you for the interview William. We loved your thoughts on the online advocacy – with social web becoming the new platform for businesses we should be aware of its effects on the real world, indeed.

The Real leaders Team,

Dhanya, Eb and yours truly…

I’ve been on an interviewing hiatus the past few months and I am excited to be back! I am sure you will notice the shift from interviewing leaders in the arts arena to technology entrepreneurs and venture capitalists (haha).

Today’s interview is someone I’ve known for a few years now. I met Michael Bodekaer in a RealAcad camp in Singapore. Michael is a very successful entrepreneur who IPO’d a successful company in his mid 20’s. He is an entrepreneur at heart and is currently in Bali working on a technology start-up incubator and creating many ventures along the way. I hope you enjoy the interview..

About Michael Bodekaer

Michael Bodekaer is an extremely passionate tech entrepreneur, focused especially on highly interactive online services and top-notch Mac-like Windows client-server application development using WPF, WCF, Silverlight and C#. He co-founded several tech startups over past 12 years, 2 exited successfully with a nice bonus attached to it. His core skill is rapid execution and product development, as well as a burning desire to develop world-class startups. He loves to enjoy life, travel the world and do extreme sports, as well as read books and attend seminars on NLP and personal development.

Rohan: Can you tell us your story, Michael?

Michael: I am from Denmark. I have always been a techie, playing around with computers since I was very young. When I was 16, I started my first software company that would develop management software for clients. I did not know who my clients were exactly but I was just developing the software. I thought it would be great to control computers in internet cafés or restaurants. I was working part time in one of those places and that’s how the idea came about. That company (Smartlaunch) turned out to be quite successful and our product is used all over the world today in thousands of places and by millions of people, which is of course a great adventure!

I was always driven by the concept of creating something new. I would always have three or four different projects going on at the same time. Most of them would fail while some of them would work out! I created a bunch of different companies following the years I started out. My studies were in Mathematics, Finance and Strategic Management.

However at the same time I was always building start-ups. I once did a food delivery system in Copenhagen. I later worked with mobile apps on advertisements – basically a bunch of weird things that did not turn out to be anything big. I failed a lot, I can’t even remember some of them. Essentially I loved spotting out the problems in the world and trying to solve them. Being a techie turned out to be a great skill to have. It allowed me to sit down and code a solution. A couple of days later I would have a prototype of what I wanted to do. I went on exchange to the US as well and lived in Boston, New York and Chicago during my university days. I moved to Zurich to work as a management consultant in McKinsey after that.

I felt like I needed to do something more though! At that time our company was 8 or 9 years old. Suddenly one day, I decided to sell all my companies. I missed the feeling of creating something, the feeling of building something for users. Whenever you put a 100 hours into something you know that would come back to you in a different form. When you are consulting you talk about the strategies and you make slides – at some point I said I want to do all this stuff I am talking so much about.

A while later I decided to move to Bali and I played adventure sports here. And my urge to create companies came back. That’s what I have been doing for a couple of years now. I am working with a tech incubator here in Bali. We have a couple of villas here. A bunch of people have come down and we have built start-ups.

Rohan: What is your current start-up about?

Michael: We are working on 6 different start-ups right now. One of them is really exciting; it’s an e-mail application. It’s trying to enter the windows e-mail market by creating great looking themes, more friendly and intuitive design. I think that is missing from Windows. Somehow, the Mac/Apple market has won app makers who focus on the quality and design whereas the Windows apps makers focus on features and not on so much on design and quality. So we want to try and innovate that!

I think we have the right skill set to do that in our team. MailBird is our first app. It’s super simple and is very intuitive. It’s focused on you seeing your emails and keeping track of your social activities with the best experience. It was very much inspired by sparrow who did a great job on the Mac market. It was taken over by Google later for about 25 million dollars, I think. The Windows market in nine times as big as the apple market. So we aim for a huge opportunity there! We finally launched.

(Kickstarter link for Mailbird is here)

Rohan: What’s the plan? Is Bali long term?

Michael: Yes definitely. Every year I am here I start to love it more and more! It is a super nice environment here and the cost of living is also very low. It creates a whole room for other opportunities and it helps my productivity tremendously. I personally don’t enjoy laundry, grocery shopping or cooking and we have managed to automate that process here. So it works really well!

So yes I will definitely stay here on the long-term. That does not mean I would not travel. I enjoy travelling and there are so many more places to explore. For a lot of projects that we are working on, we are building up the teams from Indonesia itself. Collaborating with the locals is a great approach. They are focused and artistic and great to work with.

We are working on a project similar to Mailbird. Then there’s Project Getaway where once a year, lots of entrepreneurs from all over the world come together, and live together for a month and work on their own companies. We are also working on a very exciting project called Start-up city.

We have a really cool concept of a start-up community here. We want to make that available to thousands of people. We are currently working on creating a huge locality, probably two or three soccer fields sized. We are building a small city there. People would be living and focusing on building companies. Primarily tech start-ups but any kind of start-up combined with access to local resources. We are also working on some entertainment games. We want to make education fun and engaging. It’s hard to compete with games like Warcraft. So what we do is bringing university and high school education to life. We have a bunch of high level universities partnering with us on this.

We are working on a lot of exciting projects. And I guess the main aim for us is to make it available to as many people as we can.

Rohan: What have been some of the defining moments here?

Michael: There have been many of them. I think having the experience of creating a start-up where you get users that appreciate your work is the best you can get. It’s amazing when you can see how the stuff you create make other users happy and makes them more productive or profitable. That experience in itself makes me focus my efforts on being an entrepreneur. That was one of the most defining moments. It keeps coming back to me whenever we built something and we talk to our users. Especially with Mailbird – they get their arms down and they go ‘its so cool’. I am not trying to sell it, it’s just a very cool experience. We obviously put tons and tons of hours into creating it. Getting the reward back is worth all of the effort. Even the money at that point is not the most important thing.

I started listening to audio books at a very early stage. I like to listen to them when I am driving or just instead of music. That is something I still do a lot around personal development. And it has changed my life in many ways. The personal development coaches have definitely helped a lot. I have a personal development coach and a business coach as well. I find them very useful.

I would try and connect with people who have done things in their life and that helps me improve mine. To this day I focus on learning new things and trying to develop my skills in any area. After a while it gave me a belief that there is nothing that we cant do. It opens up the whole world to you. If this is what I want to do, then I’ll figure out a way to do it. That really changes your whole perspective on life.

Consulting was a big defining moment. It was my first real job. It was a huge eye-opener. It helped to confirm that I needed to create something.

The last one has been coming here to Bali. The culture of the Balinese people especially – the way you can enjoy anything. It’s not about getting the biggest car and the biggest house. The way people live their life here, the way everything is simple and how everyone is friendly and smiling. That changes your perspective on life.

One more thing I would encourage people to do is to try and throw themselves into situations where they would be most uncomfortable. Whenever I get into an uncomfortable place, I go I shouldn’t do this – but that’s when I switch over and say I should do this. It has such a huge impact on you!

Rohan: What are some productivity hacks that you use?

Michael: The concept of productivity is huge for me. I studied math and optimization in School. So I am tuned to tweaking everything to the optimum. In general I read a lot about productivity and it is about finding the best thing that works for you. It’s very individual oriented. Do you talk with people or work on your own to focus? All those things define productivity. I spend 10-15 minutes every morning planning my day and deciding the items to work on for the day. I consider the purpose of those tasks. Not just what I am going to do but WHY I am doing it as well. Usually what I realized was that when I find the answer to why I do something, I find a much faster way to do it or an alternative way of doing it.

I believe in the 2-minute rule. Whenever I can solve a task (especially emails) that should take 2 minutes I do it immediately. By now there are so many things I just do automatically. I work in pomodoros. You decide what the goal at the end of 25 minutes is and work towards it. In the 5-10 minute break I usually think of what I did in the past 20-25 minutes and wonder what I could have done better.

Exercise helps me a lot. Just 5-10 minutes in the morning. We also train here with the others a couple of times week and that’s fun as well. Eating habits, reducing the amount of unhealthy food everything helps. We have staff here that serve us food 5 times day. I think that helps a lot too. It does not directly affect productivity but helps keep your mind fresh.

Rohan: What is your advice to different people who lead? What are thoughts on leadership that you would like to share?

Michael: When I started reading audio books I realized there was a lot about me me and me. At some point I decided to switch my goal from improving myself to helping others improve their lives. My mission became to inspire others. Obviously, I still wanted to get better but this expansion of circle helped me a lot. It helped me thinking about how other people work and learn. I put my emphasis on helping people if they want to of course. That ties to caring a lot about other people.

A favourite book, talks about 6 different styles of leadership styles. It’s not about one particular style. It’s more about being capable and adjusting to the right situations. It’s not about being that one person, its always about trying to fit into the problem and then capturing the situation. It’s about being in the moment, looking out for people and looking for the hidden signals. That ties with empathy as well. Emotional intelligence helps you get far!

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That interview was a lot of fun, Michael. Thanks so much for taking the time!

As far as Real Leaders goes, we are having a fun period of change ourselves. We have been thinking about why we are doing what we are doing and have found ourselves really excited at the thought that we’ve managed to survive an entire year! As a result, we are working on getting Realleaders.tv launched soon.

Lots more to follow. It’s going to get much better! Stay tuned.. and wish you all a great week.

The Real Leaders Team
Dhanya, Eb and yours truly..